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CGC & Overstreet grading standards


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Davenport
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:45 am    Post subject: CGC & Overstreet grading standards Reply with quote

I thought this CGC board post sheds some light on why CGC's standards will never be revealed. And how they worked the system to confuse the issue among collectors. CGC slabs on the OGG cover and one assumes the two are using the same criteria. Bait & switch?? By 'slab-em'
LINK

CGC opened it's doors in early 2000.

CGC To Adopt Overstreet Grading System
Industry News, Scoop, Friday, July 18, 2003
CGC's Steve Borock has announced that due to the tremendous response within the industry, CGC has decided to fully adopt the Overstreet grading standards for their grading service!


Three weeks later...

Friday, August 08, 2003
Eichenbaum, Borock: No changes in CGC standards
by Nathan Melby
Comics Guaranty LLC. President Steve Eichenbaum told CBG that, even though the company has adopted Robert M. Overstreet's grading standards, it will not effect the companys original grading standards.

"We have not changed our grading standards"; Eichenbaum told CBG. "From the beginning, we have always worked closely with the fine folks at Gemstone, adopting the Overstreet standards combined with the consensus of many of the collecting community's top dealers and collectors interpretations for those standards to derive CGC's own overall grading standards.

"Now that the new Grading Guide has been published with quite a bit of input from CGC Primary Grader Steve Borock, Senior Grader and Pedigree Expert Mark Haspel, and Grader and Modern Age Specialist Paul Litch, there is now little difference between Overstreet and CGC."

Borock echoed Eichenbaum, stating, "There's no change in our standards. Overstreet's grading standards have been around for 30 years and they've constantly evolved over that time."


Who adopted whose standards?
"The news that CGC will both be adopting Overstreet's standards and will not be changing its grading standards - logically requires CGC to have been using identical standards to Overstreet's current standards all along - but not necessarily those that Overstreet used to publish prior to the Grading Guide.

The record reflects such a distinction: In CBG #1431 (Apr. 20, 2001), the weekly CGC Price Index column was altered to add Overstreet's definitions for Near Mint, Very Fine, and Fine, to the listings for CGC grades 9.4, 8.0, and 6.0. A CGC representative contacted CBG following its publication, requesting that the Overstreet definitions be removed from their position next to the CGC grades. They were removed in CBG #1433 (May 4, 2001) with CBG passing along the CGC comment that the Overstreet definitions are not necessarily the ones CGC uses. CBG replaced the printed definitions with its own.

Given the suggestion that CGC's standards were not necessarily those used by anyone else, CBG requested CGC's actual definitions for publication. In a follow-up in CBG #1441 ("CGC Grading Definitions Held Close to Vest" June 29, 2001), a CGC representative indicated that the company has no plans to release them at this time."
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Stl Comics
I wiped my butt with yo momma's variants
I wiped my butt with yo momma's variants


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So in other words...

"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"


whackamole
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Davenport
Comics are my Life
Comics are my Life


Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 1367

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stl Comics wrote:
So in other words...

"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"
"Yes we are"
"No we're not"


whackamole

Laughing Yeah.

In a sentence... "Absolutely we are except we're not." phone
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Stl Comics
I wiped my butt with yo momma's variants
I wiped my butt with yo momma's variants


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 7404
Location: St. Louis, MO

PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, its always going to be their decision whether they do or don't. If they never stick to the OGG, whatever. The part that bothers me is them saying they are going to do it, but whenever they need to bend a rule, they aren't. Do these same kind of antics happen in the trading card grading industry?
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Oxbladder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a hard time believing anything those guys say. It is clear to me that they grade as they and their customers see fit. if their customers think a defect should be weighted less they will change their rules. they change their rules to cover their ass. etc. Since no one knows their "rules" and they don't guarantee their work no one can complain ...theoretically.

Now I really question just who they consulted to set their rules since so many collectors dispute some of their grading. I wonder if they even bothered consulting the average consumer/collector.
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iron maniac
STILL a maniac after all these years...
STILL a maniac after all these years...


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember when they made that 2003 announcement.

I was wondering how they were going to get out of that one. Laughing
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Davenport
Comics are my Life
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does Overstreet allow big ol' funky ink splotches on a NM+ 9.6?? Hell, maybe they do. chin scratch shrugs
Apparently CGC does (back cover) CLICK
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Oxbladder
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's a printer's defect CGC probaby would say that most/all of the run had runs so .... excuses excuses.
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Prince Henry Stout
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That same ebay seller has had several questionable looking slabs up lately. Its pretty sad when you can see spine stress and color breaking veins on the cover through the CGC case with a scan, and the book is still graded a CGC 9.4. That was the case with several of his Giant Size books he recently auctioned off. Does CGC really give that much of a break on larger format books?
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Zipper68
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prince Henry Stout wrote:
That same ebay seller has had several questionable looking slabs up lately. Its pretty sad when you can see spine stress and color breaking veins on the cover through the CGC case with a scan, and the book is still graded a CGC 9.4. That was the case with several of his Giant Size books he recently auctioned off. Does CGC really give that much of a break on larger format books?


CGC does not detract for the wavy spine that is often seen in Giant-Size squarebound comics.

I haven't seen the books you are referring to, but bear in mind that a 9.4 is Near Mint, not Mint. So, by definition, a 9.4 does have a few slight flaws and that can include a few very small spine stresses.
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Prince Henry Stout
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, ZIpper. I have often wondered how harshly they grade the large format books. Although, I think the harshness of the "impartial 3rd party" critique is also in corelation to who the submitter is. Not to sound like a "conspiracy theorist", it's just that Joe Schmo's 8.5 is often times the equivalent of a Heritage (or BSD's name here) 9.2. I wish I had saved the scan from Spectre's Giant Size Creatures auction. I doubt anyone (outside of CGC) would agree with that label. Although, I'm sure for arguments sake, that someone would have made a huge post playing as the devil's advocate, and stated how one can never truly tell a books flaws/virtues by a scan. I guess thats the beauty of online forums, everyone gets a chance to be "heard".
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Oxbladder
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2006 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think for the squarbounds that OGG allows for certain bindery issues such as some ridges, waves/ripples and staple markes (either slight perforations or ridges in the paper. I haven't checked thoroughly as of late but I know that they had such provisions for a very long time.
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